Friday, 6 May 2011

Top ten Goth pet peeves

*Sighs* I'm getting tired of people 'borrowing' my work and posting it as their own. Really, if you're going to rip me off, at least take note of my spelling. Yes, Quizilla user who cannot spell, you know who you are, and I don't like you. At least it's stuff from the crappy old Piczo site. XP

I am not in the greatest of moods today; as I'm sure I've previously mused, a day of sunshine brings out all the idiots from their lairs and away from the lure of daytime television, so I have been on the end of daft comments and general Goth-baiting all day. Thank God for headphones. I used to be pretty much de-sensitised to stupid remarks, I don't know why it's bothering me so much at the moment!

Source: Deathwaves
Unfortunately for you guys, this means you get a snarky post for this evening's entertainment: please enjoy my top ten Gothy pet peeves. Please note: this is all personal opinion, NOT my 'rules' of what is acceptable Goth behaviour, because there are no such rules (although sometimes I think scene newbies should be given a guidebook and badge - not the point).
  1. People who think that 'casual Goth' isn't Goth. Or, more to the point, net.Goths and forum jockeys (who are probably sitting at the keyboard in a white polo shirt and grubby boxers) who waste their time making other Goths feel bad for not dressing to the nines to walk the dog. Y'know what? Nearly every Goth in the world probably owns a pair of jeans. Not everyone wants or is able to wear corsets and fishnets every single day. Dressing up is great! Dressing down is fine too! In fact, some of my favourite outfits are very casual, they just happen to be black. I don't think this makes me 'less of a Goth'. In fact (guilty confession coming up) I own a pair of purple Uggs. And when I have a hangover, I like to wear them to work with black skinny jeans, a studded belt, and a purple T-shirt with a big black cross on it. I OWN UGGS, OK?! Bite me, ubergoths.
  2. Interscene rivalry. Us alternative types should stick together, surely? After all, we all borrow from each other (who's never been inspired by rockabilly, Gothic Lolita, punk, fairy kei, Visual Kei, scene, or other alternative fashion genres?). And, more importantly, we're all 'freaks' together. So snarking at members of other alt cultures - really, how is this different from mainstream types calling YOU a weirdo? Yes, there's a Lolita in the Goth club. Maybe she likes the music? Maybe she's a Goth AND a Lolita? Why can't we all just get along? I have been on the receiving end of interscene snarkery, and I do not like it.
  3. I'd like to see more representation of fellow 'prudish' types amongst alt models. At times it feels like if you are a stunning alt girl who wants to get into modelling, you have to take your clothes off. I'm sure this isn't accurate and for those who would find it less liberating or even downright uncomfortable to be photographed unclothed, it would be perhaps appealing if there were a few more well-known alt models who felt the same.
  4. People who wear trainers to clubs and other events. Aargh! No, you don't need to own a pair of Demonias, and yes, I have just been ranting on about how casual streetwear is a Good Thing, but honestly, call me elitist, but I don't want to see sweaty Nikes in a Goth club, no matter WHAT obscure band T-shirt you are wearing. Ditto Converse. I love Converse, I own hundreds, but I strongly feel that casual wear is casual wear, and people should dress appropriately to go to a club.
  5. People who complain that there are no Goth events in their area, and then when one is arranged, refuse to attend. Whyyyyyy do people DO this?
  6. Hair falls that don't match your hair. There are possibly examples out there that prove me wrong, but in general, at least one of the colours in your falls should match the hair that is actually on your head.  Failing this, your natural hair should all be covered up. Or shaven. Otherwise you look piebald. And kind of silly.
  7. Men looking better in skirts and make-up than me. Well, no, I don't mind that so much - except when they insist on standing next to me. Look, if I wanted to stand next to somebody with better legs than me, I have plenty of options, and you're not even the same sex - which isn't playing fair, dammit!
  8. Overfriendly German chappies. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Germans. Or men. But at every club I go to, I seem to get relentlessly chatted up by very persistent Germans. One of them even managed to dance very badly at the same time, which I guess was kind of impressive. Probably not in the way he was intending, though.
  9. Being videoed or photographed by strangers without permission. We 'weird-looking types' get this all the time - I don't need it from my fellow Goths as well. Particularly not when I am dancing drunkenly, thanks very much, I know that video is out there somewhere waiting to come back and bite me.
  10. Cliqueishness. At a particular town near me, all the Goths know each other, and so will only talk to each other at events. Please make some effort to welcome club newbies, it doesn't take much and you could make a new friend. Behaving in a snooty manner towards someone who is new to town, or visiting from a different area, is really just plain rude.
So those are my top ten pet hates - what are yours?


The Gothic Gentleman said...

My pet peeve has to be people who assume because I wear black I am going to be miserable, btw have you checked out yet? If not you really should!

The Fool said...

I don't have many pet peeves at all, since I just keep away from the things I don't like. =P But the first point there... I LOVE YOU for the first point!

Oh wait; One pet peeve; Those who complain they can't afford to be goth. It's not that hard. If they really want to they can find small treasures in any clothing stores, thrift stores and/or just DIY.

Pixie said...

Number 9 is something a lot of people who dress "unique" have to deal with. The first anime convention my little attended he came up to me distraught and confused. Some con goers had been gushing over his costume and wanted pictures, only he wasn't in costume. He was just your typical punk rock kid in high school who suddenly felt very self conscious. I know they didn't mean anything by it, it was a convention after all. . . but still.

Anonymous said...

Really hands down most of the pet peeves you mentioned I have them too, specially about the casual goth thing,alternative models being naked most of the time and cliqueness. Seriously some goths just wont talk to you just because you don't have lip service clothes or any known brand or just because you look young and think you're a poser, I am 19 but I look 15-17 so maybe they think I will start shoving Marilyn Manson down their throats.Another pet peeve is when they instantly turn rude when they find out you don't have much knowledge in literature. well I'm sorry I don't have an English major!!
And my last pet peeve when they call you a poser when they see that your ipod/mp3 isn't full of the Sisters of Mercy, LAM, and industrial bands, yes i do like pop, i like jpop, kpop and other genres, yes I am guilty of liking variety. Even though I'm more close to industrial goth, i mix things up now an then.
Anyways that's it, I'm sorry if this seemed more than an essay than an answer haha, keep doing what you do, and yes I stalk your blog everyday :)

Benny said...

There're lots to improve...

Fallen Angel said...

Yeah, I totally understand. I'm still getting into the scene, so I'm always worried that someone is going to accuse me of being a poser. Of course, the major problem with that is the fact that the whole movement was to get away from the social classifications of the time.
Oh! and have you read the Lady of Manner's, from Gothic Charm School, book? Very informative.

Tenebris In Lux said...

These really hit home. Still being a student of sorts, I need to tone down my apparal. I am shamed to say that I wear my Vans shoes more than my $1.00 (serious!) black bootsies from the thrift shop. I am shamed to say that yes, as I Goth, I have a crush on Marilyn Manson (love that guy, hate a lot of his music).

Videotaping a Goth and putting it up on YT or Facebook? Oh, the horror. I've always had an intense fear of one of "those girls" taking a phone photo of my rear in the lock room. Yikes.

Angel of Darkness said...

My top one has to be that "I'm not really goth" because I don't wear any make-up or have my hair died black! And being called emo all of the time. But I know they just either don't get it or something like that I'm sure.

NoxArtemis said...

I get peeved at people who just LOOK for reasons to dismiss you as a poser, which can range from anything from not wearing the right clothing to not liking a particular band to lacking body piercings and tattoos (can you really blame some people who have a persistent needle fear? People like me???) to being, well, not the status quo of what a goth should look like. You know, maybe a particular person was just born with brown skin and/or afro-like hair, into an ethnicity that is stereotyped to the point that people within the group can't even distinguish what should and shouldn't be the "norm" within said group, and justly, people outside of the group assume that these particular people don't like - nay, don't UNDERSTAND - particular forms of music such as rock and metal and people from both sides go out of their way to ostracize those individuals who dare to "trespass" outside of "their" territory and into "others" territory.

Sorry for that, but I just get p!ssed at goths who whine about how the "mundanes" discriminate against them and are soooo mean, but at the same time, some of these people probably never experienced how it is like to be treated differently based on a trait that they actually can't help, something that they are BORN with. I'm sorry. I love goth to death (haha), but seriously, if the fact that some people make the lives of others miserable just because they're associated with a subculture that has an interest with the dark side of life bothers them, they always have the option of not being goth anymore. As much as people may bite my head off for saying this, it's true. You are not born a goth: it's a lifestyle choice that you willingly took up and you can change out of it at anytime (and I'm not saying you should change out of it at any given situations; I'm just saying that it's an option). I, however, cannot make my skin complexion any lighter without there being some ramifications to my health, both physically and emotionally.

In short: people who ask, "how can you be goth if you're not white?" REALLY peeve me. Do some people feel so threatened at a black person who has 990 more plays of Dead Can Dance on their account than Aaliyah (but I guess in this effed up world, I can say that for a lot more non-goth related stuff when it comes to racial assumptions)? It's like I'll never be a "real" goth, no matter how much black I wear, how much Nosferatu I listen to, and how cynical I am toward the world (not saying that the latter is a requirement, though).

Sorry for the rant.

Rora Monroe said...

#7 made me laugh. Oh how I hate getting showed up by a guy!
My pet peeve is when I get called a poser by people who aren't even goth. I started college this year and while most people there are ones I went to highschool with the others always shoot that insult at me. They think that I only started dressing the way I do this year to get attention. Sorry to inform them I've looked like this since I was 12

The Green Fairy said...

Haha oh don't get me started on the nakedness of goth models. I'm seriously one of the biggest goth prudes you will ever encounter. I even mentioned to my mum this morning that I anted to cut off my boobs so there's no chance of them even being accidentally seen :P

It's also one of my biggest pet peeves. High five for prudes!

Also, the Aussie goths are mad-clique-ee. Gives me the shits sometimes.

One of my other ones is where people think goth is an excuse not to dress to your body shape. I don't care what anybody says, pvc only looks good on about 0.9% of the goth population, and I don't wish to see it on anybody that isn't in that bracket. Same with really short skirts and chunky legs, or even slimmer girls that don't wear something underneath the freakin' scrap of material.

Grosses me out.

☥Viktoria Nightshade☥ said...

Sorry for any repeats!

1. When people ask if I worship Satan or if I cut.

2. When people assume I know how to do magic or am going to hex them.

2. When people get all gothier than thou on me. YES I know HIM isn't gothic!

3. When I try to DIY and moms gives me "the look"

4. When I get told "It's just a phase"

5. People who claim to be so dark and gothic but have NO idea what it's even about

Worldsend007 said...

I hate it when people call me Emo

Jacqueline said...

aww, I have a pair of dreads that are blonde, lavender, periwinkle, seafoam green, and pastel pink. I actually think they looked BETTER with my red hair than they did with my now blonde hair.
to prevent pics-or-it-didn't-happen

Laurel said...

@Rora Monroe

Try dating number 7. Ouch!

@The Green Fairy

As as Australian Exgoth I totally agree with the statement you made. Everyone knows everyone and the minute someone new pops up it's like the popular clique in highschool.

In addition I would like to point out that the average mainstream person probably cannot tell the difference between any alternative subculture whatsoever. So, why the fighting when we are all freaks to the outside anyway?

My hates :)
1.Stopping traffic. I know it's a great coat (that's why I brought it) but is stopping in the middle of the street really required? There are cars behind you and I am embarrassed. Please stop talking to me now. In fact, let's extend this to- yelling things out of car windows and continuing to talk despite the fact I am on the phone to someone else. A bit of respect for space is a nice thing.

2.The whole cutting sterotype. I am sure everyone on this blog has had someone say something to them and, let's face it, even if I did I would not telling the person asking about it would I? Especially not in a room full of people. If you are really concerned you talk to that person one on one and have some evidence to back up the concern beyond hair dye and makeup.

3.Music. Taking away from part on Anon's post- is variety a bad thing? Some pop is catchy. If you like it listen to it, you shouldn't have to feel that you can only listen to one type of music because it fits with an image. We don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship (and if you do and you read this blog- power to you) use the freedom to make yourself happy.

ultimategothguide said...

@ The Gothic Gentleman - yes, I have:

I will be running my first giveaway for Goth Day this year. ^^

@ The Fool - thank you! Oh, that's one of my pet peeves too, perhaps I should have done a top-15!

@ Anonymous - yes I agree, listening to more than one genre of music should surely make you MORE Goth as you are more yourself and less conformist? That's my theory anyway. =)

I like stalkers.

@ Fallen Angel - I have indeed, I believe I reviewed it... last November? A while back, anyway. Huge GCS fangirl! <3

@ NoxArtemis - It's just occurred to me, I think I know you from CDP, yes? I would tell you my username, but I'm not active very often so have actually forgotten it! Anyway, I do lurk on a lot and generally approve of what you have to say. ^^

Anyway, totally agree, obviously I'm pasty-white but that hardly makes me 'more Goth' than someone who isn't. Skin colour, age, etc shouldn't be used as a measure of someone's Gothness. :-/

@ The Green Fairy - eek, that body-shape thing, totally forgot that! Yes, big is beautiful, yes, skinny is beautiful, yes, everything is between is beautiful too, but NO, PVC is NOT your unconditional friend!

@ Jacqueline - pardon me, allow me to correct myself on that point - NOT INCLUDING RAINBOW HAIR.

@ Laurel - oh God. People who make really personal cutting comments in front of a room full of people. If you genuinely think someone is a cutter, why would they want to discuss it, publicly, with a stranger?!

And ditto the stopping traffic thing. Happens especially if I have a parasol. I mean, really, have you people never seen a Goth before?

Anonymous said...

meh, #1 & 2 are the biggest reasons I dropped any and all affiliations to the sub-culture. Since it's become a mirror reflection of mainstream popularity contests, it's time for something new.

I am quilty of #7 though on more than a few occasions :/

Maeam said...

Yeah, I agree with the nude/naked models thing. Not necessary all the time, you know?

Anonymous said...

@Anon: Yeah, I can totally feel your pain. 20 and just about everyone thinks I look 14. Probably doesn't help that I haven't been able to really have many interesting, more "gothy" articles of clothing so I'm casual for the moment, haven't been able to get dye for a while, not allowed to dye my hair black, and I'm coming out of a major depressive period in my life... So, people probably think I'm emo or something.
@Nox: I remember way back when I was starting to be interested in the style in the early 2000s, the online dollmakers of the '90s were still popular and I found a goth Silentz dollmaker that had quite a few options for a non-white girl. Pretty neat.
@Green Fairy: Ha, I know what you mean. I've always been very modest, minus last summer. But I regret that. Next time, making a longer bondage skirt. My thrift find was too short.
And, to reply to the veeery beginning of the post... I'm not someone who really posts things I write on the internet, but it's also an annoyance when someone posts something they didn't write. I read a lot of very wonderful amateur poetry, and it always gets me when someone posts it online without even saying they didn't write it. On the flipside, this one writer my dad's a fan of was really excited when his work was stolen, because he took that to mean that he was popular enough to have it stolen. But, I wouldn't like my drawings to be stolen if this is going to be my livelihood. :/

NoxArtemis said...

@UltimateGothGuide: Hehe. You found me out. XD I'm happy the community is a lot more open-minded and friendly than some other communities I've been a part of or have lurked on. :)

@Viktoria Nightshade: Yeah. People who try to "test" others ability to distinguish goth bands from non-goth bands when it really isn't necessary are a peeve. People just do it to reassure themselves.

@Anonymous: Thanks for the tip! I'll look it up. :)

With the whole scantily clad outfits in the scene, a friend of mine (who is a non-goth) went to a goth club recently. Her account: "it was like a regular club, only the girls wore practically nothing." I'm all for freedom of bodily expression and all, but it's so weird that stuff like this actually turns into a competition with some people. Like, "any girl who wears less clothes than me is a threat" (since unfortunately, many clubs tends to host an elitist crowd). I think, "wtf???"

Eurofighter said...

THANKS <3 for defending the type of goth models I belong to. I think it's the 1st time I read this thought in a clear version in a blog post.

I do modeling but never agree for anything with a sexual meaning, and not only because my orientation is heteroromantic asexual. I feel like being modest all the time in pics.

Emily Lynn G. said...

My biggest are #s 1 and 2. 3 is SO TRUE and I never thought of it before...lots of guys at school hit on me because they think I'm, ya know, "easy." -_- and 7 makes me sad to XD 10 is just a given, unfortunately.

Mordicus said...

This is going to sound weird but I am a goth model who has got her kit off for a few photographers, but I did find myself agreeing with you on number 3.

To clarify I shoot art nude nothing more, but I am asked by pretty much everyone who approaches me if I will go further. Art nude is not fetish, it is not erotica and I have no intention of doing either.

I chose to do this pretty much for the reasons you listed, it has been a huge confidence boost, but no-one should feel pressured into doing so and I must say I agree there should be more clothed goth models out there. After all we don't go to the trouble of constructing all these pretty outfits just to get naked if someone points a camera at us :p

SaryWalrus said...

Hey, I was just poking around on the Internets and stumbled across that 'Gothic Holiday' website that uses your work. I realised that if you click on the headings of each blog post they actually link back to the blog the post came from.

I know it doesn't permit them stealing your writing but I thought I'd let you know.

Inmate 4 said...

Lady Amaranth, a woman who is impeccably dressed and ALWAYS dressed, has long provided the blueprint for the kind of model I wish to become. Us prudish types are out here, don't worry!

NephaeliaVonDaemonen said...

Heh heh.. I have Uggs too XD Tall black ones. I only wear them at home... ahaha. I thought I was the only one :P
I agree with all of those things (except the German men one, because I live in America, and have never experienced that XD). Especially number 9. It's happened to me before, and it's just awkward D:< Asking for pictures is fine. NOT asking is another thing entirely.
Also number 7... Me and my friend kept coming across makeup tutorials by cross-dressing males the other day. It's such a weird thing to be jealous of a guy's looks.. I don't HATE it, it's just.. a strange thing. XD
And if I had other goths in my area.. I would definitely welcome them. I CAN'T have a clique though to begin with, since I'm the only goth in my high school, and one of only a few in my town... Kind of off-topic, but it seems nearly the whole class below me in my high school is scene/emo.. which I find strange.. 0_o
It sucks to be the lone goth, but I bet I'll meet others someday. ^-^

Anonymous said...

Well, I have two main pet peeves associated with our wonderfully dark community.

The first would be your number two. One of my close friends is goth (I say "goth" and not "Goth", because I KNOW it's a phase with her; before this, she was emo, and before that, she was goth, and before THAT, she was emo, and before THAT she was goth, so . . . eventually, I expect her to just ditch both subcultures and go on her merry way), but when my classmates started asking if I were Goth, and I didn't know the answer, she was emo. As she was one of the only two people in a subculture at my school, she was the first one I asked (though, unfortunately, our conversation went a little something like this: "Hey, what's the difference between emos and Goths?" "Emos cut themselves and Goths don't.") for help. Therefore, even though she didn't exactly give me a good explanation, I formed a pretty good friendship with her.

Now through my time of reading small chunks of the Internet made by Goths, it sickens me to see so much "emo hate". I think it's insane that both sides of the subculture hate each other simply because of mainstream's ignorance. I personally believe that if we just "teamed up", we could "raise awareness."

My second pet peeve would be the people who are always trying to say that Evanescence, Slipknot, Green Day, etc., are Goth bands. Ya know, the baby bats and all.

Speaking of baby bats, Amy, I would like to ask a question that I hope you will answer. I originally intended to ask this when I *finally* caught up, perhaps now would be a good time (and I really, REALLY hope you don't mind).

Currently, I am fourteen-years-old, and "went Goth" a few months ago -- around March of this year, I believe. However, I'm against most of the stereotypes and, well, you know.

I've been reading this blog here since around March. I've found that I love Goth music, and pretty much everything about the scene ("pretty much" meaning that, while I like looking at tattoos and piercings, I wouldn't want any myself).

So, basically, my question is: would I be considered a baby bat, even though most people say I'm fairly well-informed -- thanks to this blog, of course! -- of Goth.

Sheesh. This was way longer than I expected. Sorry about that! And thanks, Amy (even if you decide not to respond haha)!

P.S. "Winterborn" by The Cruxshadows rocccks!

ultimategothguide said...

@ Anonymous - your friend sounds like she could do with reading my Goth vs. Emo post... *rolls eyes*

My personal opinion would be that honestly, it's up to you what you are considered to be by what image you present. Coming off as reasonably well-informed, chances are, you won't be considered a babybat but simply a young Goth.

However, when I was aged 14-18, I figured I was too knowledgeable about the subculture to make babybat mistakes. Long story short, I wasn't! BUT I only realised this when I was older, looking back. So if you slip up every now and again or discover there's something you don't know, it doesn't matter and doesn't make you any 'less Goth' - we all have those moments, seriously.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I know that I am months late, but I don't care. German guys are sooo persistant! They never stop talking! At least the ones that I have met don't... Not to stereotype all Germans or anything. :)

jessicadawn said...

I reeally hate more experienced goths who just assume that just because i'm younger than them, and maybe not as well dressed, I dont have a clue about the subculture! I mean, i'm 15, i've only been goth for a couple of months - I am going to make mistakes! I may not be wearing a corset and ok so far my DIY skills only go as far as customising bags/tops, etc and making accessories (although I did manage to make my first skirt without it going horribly wrong - yaay!) but I do feel I know (thanks to this blog!) enough about the subculture to be considered part of it...i have enough trouble about being goth from my parents, I dont need it from you too! Sorry about ranting, its just something that annoys me :)

Lady Bethezda @ Bethezda's Preocupations said...

I know this is a super old post but
MAD LOVE to you for posting this. ditto ditto ditto.......


Flossie said...

Oh my god, you know what fairy-kei is. I'm smitten.

I think my least favourite thing is negative energy within a community. The Lolita and Gyaru communities, for instance, have so much intra-scene hate and bitterness, it can make them really unpleasant places to be. I keep wanting to try switching my everyday pop-kei and fairy-kei with something like oneegyaru once in a while, but I just couldn't bear the reaction I'd get because I prefer my body a bit soft around the edges (I just think I look cuter than way, not to mention younger). Gals are terrifyingly harsh about size, not to mention their slut-shaming is ridiculous for a community of people whose image is based on looking sexy.

On that note, I kind of want to call you on #4. I understand you're entitled to your opinion and that's totally okay, but I'm a little saddened that you would refer to yourself as a feminist and still say something like that. It's their own choice what to do with their bodies. Nobody else gets to say what anyone does with their own body.

Surely e should be trying to change society's backwards opinions about women who like showing off their bodies, rather than criticising them for not falling into place with mainstream mores? Isn't "somebody put some more clothes on, you're all giving my subculture a bad name" just one step away from "put those awful freaky clothes away, they're making the family/school/community look bad"? And I'm sure we've all been there.

stormatia said...

1. Being told that "goth is dead" or that "you're not really goth" by people who aren't even close to the subculture. Of course goth seems dead in rural Illinois! The town of Neoga has a population of about 2,000!

2. Being ridiculed by ignorant rednecks and jocks for being goth AND curvy (the high school I attended was very cliquey). . . and when I say rednecks, I mean the personified definition of the word. . . it's pretty bad.

3. People assuming I do drugs. Seriously, just because I have blue hair, doesn't mean I abuse illegal substances! And no, I cannot sell you anything, nor tell you who could! I don't even smoke cigarettes, for god's sake!

4. My pentagram necklace is not a symbol of my devotion to satan. It is an expression of the pagan lifestyle I was raised in. Will I curse you? No. Anyone who knows anything about pagan and wiccan religions should know that anything bad you do to someone else comes back to you even worse. Frankly, most of these people aren't worth the effort.

Tenebris In Lux said...

Whooo! Not to sound stalkerish or anything, but stormatia, I get excited when I find other peeps from Illinois xD There's like Chicago .. soy bean fields .. some corn .. and that's about it! But I have never heard of Neoga ...

Anonymous said...

My pet peeve is when someone asks if I'm emo...

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