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Sunday, 29 April 2012

Checking facts: the Schwarze Szene

Hello again everyone. I recently read the following regarding my post about the Schwarze Szene:

"One post actually managed to upset me and that was about the Schwarze Szene...apart from some shit she copied from the internet she got it all wrong much to my and my friends amusement. First we thought ok she is from England, maybe she's a bit uninformed...but at the end of the day it's just plain...stupid. Don't write about things you have no idea about...you want to go to the WGT, maybe someone will recognize you and shit you write and laugh at you (I'm referring to Schwarze Szene post)..that wouldn't be fun now, would it?"

Charming as this is (and FYI, 'shit I copied from the internet'? I'm assuming you're referring to the article I quoted with credits and links, since a large part of the rest of the post is personal opinion on self-identification as a Goth which it would make no sense to copy from somewhere else?), I will admit that since I am indeed English and did the post based on research rather than firsthand knowledge, there is every possibility that some of the information may be inaccurate.

Tangent: the usual manner, or so I would have assumed, of responding to an article which possibly contains incorrect information, would be to leave a comment saying something along the lines of, "Hi there, I noticed that your article on X said XYZ. As someone with personal knowledge of this subject I just wanted to let you know that I don't feel this is accurate, actually it's ABC. Would it be possible for you to change it?" But hey, perhaps not everyone was brought up with good manners.

Aaaanyway, whilst a comment on the original post was from a reader in Germany who does, in fact, self-identify with the Schwarze Szene and who, I would have assumed, would have pointed out any awful glaring mistakes at the time, I open the floor to German readers. If you could please let me know what it is that I have got 'all wrong' about the Schwarze Szene, so that I can edit the original post, that would be fantastic. Thank you very much. :-)

29 comments:

SaryWalrus said...

Wow, that comment is so incredibly rude. Do people understand the concept of "constructive criticism" any-more?

Kitty Lovett; The Unadulterated Cat said...

If you make no arguments as to why someone is wrong other than "I say so", then sorry, but you've lost. Not just the argument, but life.

Introducing Tame said...

Hey Amy,
I'm from Germany and in my opinion your definition is pretty good.
The Schwarze Szene often isn't that tolerant and open minded as you described it in your post BUT IT SHOULD BE.
Although your point of view might be a little bit idealistic, you perfectly hit the sense and the basic principles of the 'Szene'.

cheers

Nightwind said...

Amy, I checked around and found the source of that post you refer to. My feeling is that no matter what you say or do, certain people, and particularly the author of that blog, are going to try and discourage your efforts here..

I don't believe that any of your followers expect absolute perfection from you. I visit this blog because I appreciate your enthusiasm and the information you present to us. You are not working on an encyclopedia. Your facts do not have to be absolutely impeccable; at least not for me.

What I'm saying here is that I hope you can learn to ignore that one rude blogger and his small band of equally annoying detractors. Otherwise, they're going to continue keeping you on the defensive until your blogging efforts are no longer enjoyable for you. Then, we will all lose.

Shewearscrazywell said...

I love how you corrected the rude statement! I sometime do not understand how people who claim to be about self expression and freedom of expression as a goth can be so uptight about what they are labeling themselves as? Labels are just that....I have so many labels in my multi-faceted personality that I can only identify myself as "me"...unique but surely fitting in a couple of groups of similar people. I adore your gentle touch to appease these outraged label bound readers. :) Hearts, Janna Lynn

Kaitlyn said...

Wow, I hate when people try to correct other people like that. The thing is, I don't see how your post could be *that* inaccurate. I mean I don't know anything about scharze szene, but it's not like you were making wild claims or anything. Then again when has the internet ever offered fair and constructive criticism? :<

Xanthy said...

I'll see if I can find some Germans, I know a couple in the industrial scene who might be of help :)

gin said...

People have the unfortunate idea that since this is the internet, you don't need manners. What's worse is the fact that many of these people behave the same way public. The tradition of manners dies a little every day:(

Glamorgan said...

It's sad that the anonymity given by the internet causes people to assume that they do not need to be tactful or have some level of respect in stating their opinions on another person's post/blog or when citing what they perceive to be incorrect information.

Tenebris In Lux said...

Is that comment from someone we know? -_- I made a mistake in an article I wrote once (I was too tired to check for errors and paid the price for looking ridiculously stupid without meaning to -- mixing up band members! It's hard to prove that you knew certain knowledge all along, but alas, difficult people will be difficult). If it's from someone I am familiar with, let's just say that there IS a fine line between being a bitch and using constructive criticism.

Grissino said...

Well, Schwarze Szene is something covering a lot of different kind of persons. I just want to say this. Than, about the comment, just invite the person to write what he/she is exactly thinking is the Schwarze Szene. And please continue with your nice post as usual ^_^

gothified said...

I don't see any glaring mistakes. There's no definite definition of the "Schwarze Szene", it's subjected to the views and opinions of every single person as is any other subculture and musical genre.
I think the person that made that extraordinary rude comment actually missed the main point of the concept of the Schwarze Szene: tolerance. Unfortunately you do'nt link the source so I'm not sure if that person pointed out exactly which misconceptions and mistakes she thought she had identified. I guess it was just a general hate post by someone not long enough part of the culture to get what it's about.
But in the end it doesn't matter because there will never by a consensus between all people in the subculture what the exact definitions and limitations are...

EpagomenalMotif said...

Amzz, boobala, the person responded to this post in my comments if you wanted to have a looksee. they had some (frankly legit) concerns that if s/he posted it on here it'd just get deleted, you see.

linnea-maria said...

What a mean comment and not constructive at all! Was that a threat to you, not to go to WGT? I thought that post was so well written and you referred correctly to other sources. If the sources were wrong, that was not your fault. Just the symbol that are embraced by all the genres says a lot, so what was it that you was wrong about? Nothing as I can understand because he/she didn't point it out. Hugs

Lily N. said...

I believe you should just start ignoring the jerks. Your blog is your space. Plenty of people enjoy your posts on a daily basis. Don't start surrendering your space to people who have no respect for it.

If they need a venue for their thoughts and ideas, they can start their own blog and attract their own audience. You're giving them more attention than they deserve.

Kreepette said...

It sounds to me that they were trying really hard to be rude. Like either they didn't want to or they were having that one off day.

Petite Cosette said...

I will always be amazed on how bitchiness is everywhere. I am kind of an "old" one, and ever since I started this lifestyle, I have encountered many specimens like that... Maybe it is why I live relatively secluded, to protect myself from all this rudeness. If you do not conform in the non conformism, you are out. Whatever the hell of a scene you rely to, you cannot belong to it if you are open-minded. What a wonderful paradox, eh? I like reading your blog, because as a blog it is PERSONNAL, and you are not trying to write some empty pseudo-journalism shit. And I really admire the way you try to put it all together. You are not pretentious, you are just precious! Take care
(a little friend from Manchester...)

Anonymous said...

I'm from Germany and I used to be in the Schwarze Szene (not anymore though). Unfortunately I cannot remember your exact words in that post (or feel the urge to read it again right now), but I don't remember any outrageous mistakes either, so... I think the person who wrote it, doesn't have much to say. He/she probably just wanted to make you feel as miserable as he/she feels him-/herself, I assume. Must have been laughed at by some goths from the WGT at some point in the past, he/she just cannot get over...? Otherwise the criticism would have been the way you suggested...

Anonymous said...

Okay, I just quickly snanned that post of question again and no, there's nothing outrageous in it. Your quote from the internet is absolutly fine. The rest is how you make use of it, and thats perfectly fine as well. :)

Bengoshi-Neko said...

Rude much? I really don't like it when people think the best way to put forward their point of view is to be an ass about it. I see it way too often in situations where I hold the same views as a person, but almost feel embarrassed to because they're just so downright rude about the way they express their ideas. :(

Amy Asphodel said...

Just an FYI to everyone who commented assuming that this quote was from EpagomenalMotif - while I found it amidst the comments on his blog it was posted anonymously and wasn't EM. Whilst I don't appreciate how the comment was phrased I'm literally just looking for information so I can sort out any huge glaring mistakes rather than attempting to start yet more lame blogging drama.
Thanks for clarifying my info. Normal service (or what passes for it around here) will be resumed shortly. :-)

EpagomenalMotif said...

Tenebris, you wound me. I would have thought you'd have seen enough of the things I'd written to recognise that it obviously wasn't from me.

there's a difference between getting some information wrong about something like the schwarze szene and getting band members mixed up. I really don't care about the definitions of the schwarze szene - it's not what I'm about.

QUALITY CONTROL. PROOF READ. it's not that difficult. "i was tired" isn't an excuse.

...now, the question is, will this make it through comment moderation?

Laura said...

For what it's worth I think you handled the situation with grace.

Amy Asphodel said...

EM - I've put your comment through as some of it was relevant but can I ask you not to drag your personal problems with Tenebris into this. I haven't let through the assorted comments bashing you (it would seem a bit unsporting since it wasn't your comment), and equally, nothing Tenebris has posted on her own blog has anything to do with this discussion. As much as you enjoy criticising my friends, I'm sure you can understand why I'd prefer you keep it on your own blog. Thanks.

EpagomenalMotif said...

Oh that's no fun. let them through. I'm sure they'd be incredibly inspirational.

Anonymous said...

Amy-

As a German, I thought your post on the Schwarze Szene was excellent. I think perhaps the person that was angry with it was only complaining because they feel as though they have to prove how goth they are by insulting you and saying you know nothing on the subject. Your post was not even written as a *this is fact!* sort of way, so what could they honestly have a problem with? The beauty of the goth scene is that it is very open to interpretation and i believe you captured that perfectly.

Much love from a German goth,
Mika

Ms. Lou said...

Don't let a few rude and insecure people bother you. Your blog is lovely! Just keep doing what you're doing.

The HouseCat said...

I've been trying to do some research on the Schwarze Szene concept too, and am finding English-language resources scarce and computerised translations barely coherent. I wish I'd taken German at school rather than capitalising on French being my first language and taking that instead >.< I've asked one of my German-speaking Swiss friends to produce a translated summary of more academic article I found in German on the Schwarze Szene, but the article is 13 years old and with the pace of change in modern subcultures, I'm not sure how relevant it will still be.

Catharine Wethered said...

Good grief the commentor didn't even point out what you had supposedly gotten wrong about the issue. Just 'you're wrong and you're stupid'.

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